Curse

Cracko · Aug 12, 2006, 10:45 PM // 22:45

Warriors do Single damage, but more

Elementalists do Multi damage, but less

elektra_lucia · Aug 12, 2006, 11:10 PM // 23:10

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I cant believe how many people equate warriors with damage dealing. Why do so many people think this?

Warriors are frontline - thus they need high armour; however, just because they're frontline doesn't mean they should ONLY tank. I mean, sure an ele (or even mesmer) does damage but if you say put a mesmer to frontline, he dies VERY fast. They are going to be hitting on the monks (be it PVP or PVE) and they will need to do SOME damage. Take PVP for example (since it's not so needed in PVE). Sure, you may have your tanking warrior but the other warrior is going to be killing things fast.

A decent monk will heal you fine in PVE, so you might as well have the warrior doing more damage. Why? Less time! I don't want to sit there bored (tankers perspective).

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Warriors are supposed to tank. TANK.

ROFL.

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Why do you think anet gave us stronger armour, shields, and defencive skills?

They're frontline. Oh, sorry to break it to you buddy but pretty much EVERY class has defensive skills. Look at mesmers - heard of distortion?

Ele - Ward Against Melee isn't defensive to you?

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In my view, it is perfect for a tanker. You have constant healing

Exactly, you hit the nail RIGHT on the head... At the start of the sentence, IN YOUR VIEW. Rofl.

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You might say "if were not supposed to do damage, why does anet give us three different weapon options?" Ill tell you why. Think about it. All weapon skills arent just about damage dealing. we have knock downs, bleeding, crippling. These skills are able to give an opening to your other party members to do damage. And about mending. Wariors should use mending while fighting. yes i said it. I always have mending on my skill bar. ALWAYS. I know that it takes up one pip of regen. so? Good warriors use adrenaline.

It's great until you get hit with desecrate enchant, defile enchant and then drain enchant. Rofl.

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Doylak signet- no knockdowns, and added armour.

Good for PVE, for PVP someone can just avoid you yes?

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So people, stop letting your eles slack off

Hypocrite. Same applies to your idea, you're letting the monks slack off. I mean, for all your million defensive skills. A monk can just heal seed you and it works just as well, LoL.

I use weapon sets for icy/vamp/zealous etc.

The fact you comment on "good warrior" and you sound like a PVE only player (if you're PVP then god help you) really says quite a bit x.x.

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I personally don't understand why you would even waste your points on a secondary profession.

Look at the skills, use your head a little x.x.

It is no wonder wammos are so bad, they're closed minded and not willing to learn

.

Mesmer in Need · Aug 13, 2006, 03:51 AM // 03:51

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Originally Posted by Ismoke

a mesmer telling warriors how to be a warrior! Thats ITs eureka !

ok buddy thats just my tag. I do have a warrior, and a very sucesseful one.

In this post, i should have posted whether i meant pvp or pve in tanking. I meant pve. In pvp, real people play and do not mob around the first thing in their view (exept a monk). In pve, you can attract a mob of enemies and let them deal the damage to you so your teamamtes dont have to. My point is, in pve, warriors should not be so concentrated on dealing the damage. Every caster has been attacked multiple times,a nd it gets annyoying. Also, a good warrior will not aggro every enemie in sight.

Rera · Aug 13, 2006, 05:49 AM // 05:49

@Mesmer in Need:
You're completely missing the point. You want warriors to tank, that's fine, but warriors don't need defensive skills to tank. A warrior with 0 in all attributes and an empty skillbar works fine if all you want is a tank. So if a warrior functions fine as a tank just by standing there, you can devote all of a warrior's attributes and skills towards damage-dealing.

As for casters being attacked, 99% of the time it's your own fault. Whenever I PUG, I invariably have casters either walking in front of me, or breathing down my neck when I draw aggro. Neither placement is equivalent to "GET THE **** BACK", which is where casters need to be.

dgb · Aug 13, 2006, 07:06 AM // 07:06

The whole tanking idea is inane, it's simply a method to allow bad groups to survive long enough to kill something. If you really want to move quickly through the enemy run four warriors with Tiger's Fury and "To The Limit!", backed up by an orders necro and a three man defensive line of your choice. Combat will generally be over before a nuker would get off his first meteor shower hit (8s after he starts casting). Of course this assumes you actually have monks and warriors who know what they are doing, as opposed to gimped whammos with mending. However if you get people who know how to do this, it's obscene how quickly you can roll through PVE.

kotumaru · Aug 13, 2006, 09:01 AM // 09:01

Yeah... I am starting to notice that people really don't care at all about letting a War tank. Even the Monk's try to outrun me to the next mob pack.

Balthz · Aug 13, 2006, 07:36 PM // 19:36

in pve the warriors cant have all 8 skills devoted to tanking otherwise the dmg from the other party emembers would the pull the agro off the warriors and therefore he is useless. look in pvp warriors almost never use defense skills but still ppl dont spike them instead they go for mesmers or necros the ones inpeeding the oposing teams dmg. a simple healing seed can made a frenzy using gladiators armor warrior a perfect tank.

Shadowfox1125 · Aug 14, 2006, 08:52 AM // 08:52

Read this thread: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10003516
'nuff said.

Oh, and this is coming from someone named "Mesmer in Need" and who says always has Mending on them. >.>

After you read that thread, someone close this one.

zadinos · Aug 14, 2006, 09:34 AM // 09:34

Which skills and weapons i use with my warrior depends on situations.
If you are xp warrior you know what you need and what works best. In some q or maps you need hammer in some axe an in some sword. You need to know what you are up againts. For example its no meening to take enhanchments like mending or healing hands with you if you are facing necros with Strip Enhanchment or mesmers with Shatter Enhanchment. Before you decide with skills you are going to use think of the foes what skills they use and ofcourse bosses.
Know your enemy!!

Arkantos · Aug 14, 2006, 09:36 AM // 09:36

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Originally Posted by zadinos

Which skills and weapons i use with my warrior depends on situations.
If you are xp warrior you know what you need and what works best. In some q or maps you need hammer in some axe an in some sword. You need to know what you are up againts. For example its no meening to take enhanchments like mending or healing hands with you if you are facing necros with Strip Enhanchment or mesmers with Shatter Enhanchment. Before you decide with skills you are going to use think of the foes what skills they use and ofcourse bosses.
Know your enemy!!

This has nothing to do with being a warrior. This is just something you need to know for any class.

Mystic_Karnas · Aug 15, 2006, 12:57 AM // 00:57

Okay, I frequent FoW as a BiP necro, and, no matter what happens, even if the warrior has a whole group tied up and I'm way in the back, an enemy melee unit makes a bee-line to me. So, I depend on the warrior to either kill it, or do enough damage to distract, if he's a pure tank...bad things happen. I mean, sure, one stance tank is nice, but with at least one warrior able to deal some good damage, my life was made so much easier without havng to worry about running back and forth, biPing, keeping defenses up, and being chased by some stupid berserker. Plus, the bodies fall faster, so I have a consistant energy source coming in, but with warriors that can only tank, my energy source isn't nearly as consistant.

My point is this, Warriors that can both deal damage and take it are a much better asset to the team than a warrior who does no damage, but recieves it real well. Plus, warriors are less likely to take aggro with low AL casters and a 105 BiP running around. This applies for MOST situations in my opinion, I'm just using fissure as an example.

Doomlord_Slayermann · Aug 15, 2006, 03:38 PM // 15:38

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Originally Posted by Shadowfox1125

After you read that thread, someone close this one.

Indeed, there is no reason to be discussing an ignorant viewpoint when we can discuss an enlightened one instead.

Xaero Gouki Kriegor · Aug 17, 2006, 07:33 PM // 19:33

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Originally Posted by Rera

@Mesmer in Need:
You're completely missing the point. You want warriors to tank, that's fine, but warriors don't need defensive skills to tank. A warrior with 0 in all attributes and an empty skillbar works fine if all you want is a tank. So if a warrior functions fine as a tank just by standing there, you can devote all of a warrior's attributes and skills towards damage-dealing.

As for casters being attacked, 99% of the time it's your own fault. Whenever I PUG, I invariably have casters either walking in front of me, or breathing down my neck when I draw aggro. Neither placement is equivalent to "GET THE **** BACK", which is where casters need to be.

I relate to this paragraph in such a really really scary close way. I have these nukers or something that are running out before me, before I can even lock agro, trieing their nukes before I can even engage the Shadow Group or etc, its like I will have to start bringing sprint with me next time I group pug PvE in order to beat the squishies to the enemy.

Sir fredman · Aug 17, 2006, 08:15 PM // 20:15

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Originally Posted by Mesmer in Need

omg what have i done...

lol mesme in need you just made people telling build descriptions of warriors what warriors are supposed to do....thats what you have done =)

Livingston · Aug 17, 2006, 10:12 PM // 22:12

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Originally Posted by Livingston

Oooh I think this going to be an interesting thread.

Puts on shades and gets some popcorn.

Livingston

*Watches the fireworks*

Good thing I brought my sunnies.

Livingston

sgtclarity · Aug 18, 2006, 02:04 AM // 02:04

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Originally Posted by Hells Last Survivor

Tank + damage dealing:

Here is the core to damage dealing as a tank:

Riposte
Deadly Riposte
Gladiator's Defense

.

I stopped reading here, since when is a reactionary build DPS? If they don't attack you (which is very common with GW's sporadic agro "system") your DPS goes to rockbottom.

Mera Regila · Aug 18, 2006, 02:31 AM // 02:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesmer in Need

I cant believe how many people equate warriors with damage dealing. Why do so many people think this? Eles are supposed to do damage dealing. Not warriors. Warriors are supposed to tank. TANK. Why do you think anet gave us stronger armour, shields, and defencive skills? To nuke? I recently posted on a thread about how people hate mending, and people think a warrio using mending is a waste of energy. In my view, it is perfect for a tanker. You have constant healing, and if you are concentrated on tanking you dont have to worry about your energy. You might say "if were not supposed to do damage, why does anet give us three different weapon options?" Ill tell you why. Think about it. All weapon skills arent just about damage dealing. we have knock downs, bleeding, crippling. These skills are able to give an opening to your other party members to do damage. And about mending. Wariors should use mending while fighting. yes i said it. I always have mending on my skill bar. ALWAYS. I know that it takes up one pip of regen. so? Good warriors use adrenaline. I know we only have a few signets, but they are really great. Healing signet- over 100 health from 1 heal. Doylak signet- no knockdowns, and added armour. So people, stop letting your eles slack off, and let them attack. Let your warriors tank.

... Why don't you read the thread "Why nuking sucks" and get back to me with this. Nukers can brag a HELL of a lot sometimes, this is one of those times. I remember another instance, farming rotscale on my tank. The three nukers on our team were dropping like flies, wheras i hardly needed healing, and didnt die once. THEN they had the nerve to suggest it was them doing all the damage. They mixed FIRE STORM with meteor shower, making rotscale agro panic out of the shower. Inexperianced nukers like that should be banned.

You expect tanks to sit there doing nothing? When they could be delivering heavy DPS to their targets?

The point is Nuker DPS simply can't compare with Hammer and Axe DPS. One of these reasons is that they don't attack fast enough, must give up large amounts of energy for their high damaging attacks, and have exhaustion which takes away base energy, making them less effective, all of this mixed with the fact that eles have no deep wound. Some attacks and combos that do FAR more dmg than nukers here:

Hammer: Devastating Hammer, Crushing Blow, Fierce Blow, Irresistable Blow. This combo will either kill or seriously maim your target, especailly if it's a caster.

Axe: Eviscerate, Axe Rake, Bull's Strike. Nuker DPS cant compare with this.

Final conclusion. Don't diss Warriors if you don't have any facts to base your arguments on. Eles can't compare with their damage anywhere, the only plus about them is AoE in PvE, which isn't even as good as SS+Reckless Haste.

Hmm... why doesn't it come as a suprise you are a mending W/Mo? Mending is PATHETIC, and pathetic is all it is. Live Vicariously is a better enchant, always will be. Three pips of health regen is totally irrelevent, as you will take more damage around 6 per hit, which is all mending can heal. Healing Signet is way better than Mending, so is Live Vicariously. Lose the mending man, it's not a good skill.

LifeInfusion · Aug 18, 2006, 02:33 AM // 02:33

I hate people that say TANK. FFS where do you see in the GW manual : Warrior's stand there and take the damage while everyone else beats the shit out of the mobs?

Plus mending won't help you when the majority of degen surpasses 3 regen of mending. Healing prayers is trash for a nonmonk, so it is even more trashy for a NONCASTER. That's right, warrior's are NONCASTERS. But that doesn't mean they do not do damage and sit there.

The way I see it you only need Watch Yourself, not even Dolyak signet unless you are fighting in an area with knockdown.

Leave the tank-nuker-healer mentality at home. Warrior's armor is an easy 100armor with sentinal's, 80+20 phys with glad's. Then you add a 16 armor shield. That's 116. Then add Watch Yourself: that's 136...

Effective damage taken: 1/(2^(136/40) ~ 0.095...

If you add Dolyak Signet and you have roughly 170 (depending on strength level). 180 armor is MORE than enough. You don't need a whole bar for defense. 2 skills can supplement your armor's level to an insane level since +40 armor is half damage.

1/2^(170/40) ~0.05... 5% damage

...This is coming from me, a elementalist AND warrior player.

Ole Man Bourbon · Aug 18, 2006, 06:10 AM // 06:10

Lol, I use my Ele for storage now as well.

What cracks me up are the Fire Eles in the groups in The Deep saying, "look now, we nukers are UBAR!." Yeah, you THREE nukers.

BTW, you want some damage, run a 16 Axe Eviscerate W with Tiger's Fury at about 8-9 secs, Zealous Axe of Axe Mastery 15^50, crank up a little Strength, and you'll see some damage, my friend. You'll see so much damage it'll make your head spin. XD

Arkantos · Aug 18, 2006, 07:43 PM // 19:43

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Originally Posted by Ole Man Bourbon

BTW, you want some damage, run a 16 Axe Eviscerate W with Tiger's Fury at about 8-9 secs, Zealous Axe of Axe Mastery 15^50, crank up a little Strength, and you'll see some damage, my friend. You'll see so much damage it'll make your head spin. XD

Agreed